Reject Convenience Forum

Thanks for the video. Your original video about switching to a dumbphone definitely helped me make the switch last October, so I'm coming up on 1 year. I have no regrets; I hated feeling the constant need to scroll, and constantly having a link to the online world made me anxious. Like you, after switching, I found myself glued to my couch watching Youtube on my tablet more often than I would like, so I stopped using the tablet and eventually sold it. There have been times when having a smartphone would have been convenient, but for me, the mental health benefits outweigh any costs.

sbh.rc wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:32 am Thanks for the video. Your original video about switching to a dumbphone definitely helped me make the switch last October, so I'm coming up on 1 year. I have no regrets; I hated feeling the constant need to scroll, and constantly having a link to the online world made me anxious. Like you, after switching, I found myself glued to my couch watching Youtube on my tablet more often than I would like, so I stopped using the tablet and eventually sold it. There have been times when having a smartphone would have been convenient, but for me, the mental health benefits outweigh any costs.

Thank you for the update, I totally agree with you, life is overall substantially better for me too, but there's small hiccups every now and again. Nothing that is world shattering though, so it's super worth it. Also welcome to the forum! I'm really stoked to see people joining!

sbh.rc wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:32 am I'm coming up on 1 year.

Thank you for the update ! That's really cool to hear. Unlike you two, I haven't made the switch, but I'm trying to incorporate more dumb devices into my day to day life. Hearing how it's working for some people really gives me hope.

I think a lot of people are tired of the current state of technological "innovation" (which it isn't), and videos like Reject Convenience's latest 2 year update really helps in demystifying the whole thing, and making it more practical.

Really excellent vid. Already left a comment but this video, and the first one, definitely inspired me to make changes in my lifestyle and relationship with tech. Really interesting to see a "2 years later" for something like this. I feel like even without the big switch to a dumb phone, there's a lot of wisdom for managing the demands of the modern internet/smart life in a less connected way.

I'm not sure I'll ever want to make a full switch but I've found good ways to create extra friction with the device, like greyscale modes, power saving mode on my samsung can be configured to only let you access 4 apps (+ messaging, options, etc.) so I've removed any "media" app from that, only has the core apps i need for 90% of situations (discord, camera, whatsapp, clock). Highly recommend everyone do similar things, only unlock your "full" phone when you actually need it (i.e rarely). Saves battery too! I've only been at it for a few days but I'm surprised how rarely I actually need access to all hundreds of apps on my phone (which i am pruning down also)

Curious if any thoughts on the consumerist trend in response to things like the dumbphone movement, of phones being advertised/marketed to help you use your phone less, or to create more friction, like the samsung flip series or the grayscale e-ink p hones like the hisense a9 pro. Feels like a half-step but I can't imagine getting sucked into an instagram scroll on a 5 fps black and white display, so if I daily drove it, it'd probably work.

Speaking of, I have a few friends who communicate with me on instagram, so I haven't deleted the app, but I do get drawn into scrolling regularly for at least a few minutes. Feels like peer pressure/social messaging apps are the main draws to my phone now. Any advice for avoiding those social pressures to join on apps/group chats/etc that dumb phones can't do?

(P.S. Thanks for setting up this forum. Very cool!)

Catbattle wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:20 am I'm not sure I'll ever want to make a full switch but I've found good ways to create extra friction with the device, like greyscale modes, power saving mode on my samsung can be configured to only let you access 4 apps (+ messaging, options, etc.) so I've removed any "media" app from that, only has the core apps i need for 90% of situations (discord, camera, whatsapp, clock). Highly recommend everyone do similar things, only unlock your "full" phone when you actually need it (i.e rarely). Saves battery too! I've only been at it for a few days but I'm surprised how rarely I actually need access to all hundreds of apps on my phone (which i am pruning down also)

I'm all about making what you have work for you, not against you! It sounds like you have a really solid setup here.

Catbattle wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:20 am Curious if any thoughts on the consumerist trend in response to things like the dumbphone movement, of phones being advertised/marketed to help you use your phone less, or to create more friction, like the samsung flip series or the grayscale e-ink p hones like the hisense a9 pro. Feels like a half-step but I can't imagine getting sucked into an instagram scroll on a 5 fps black and white display, so if I daily drove it, it'd probably work.

So it's interesting, on one hand, it's easy to say that if companies see a market, they will take advantage of that market, but at the same time, this movement kind of inherently breaks down the whole reason the smart phone is profitable. It can't show you ads, so from the perspective of, say, Google, what's the point? I don't think existing companies will really encourage the switch at all, because it is way less profitable for them to even attempt it. Like think about the phone plans alone, even though the big 2 offer dumb phone plans, it's $30/month, which, sure, is 10x what I'm paying, but for the smartphone alt, it's upwards of $80, so the profit margins are a lot higher.

Now on the other hand, there will be new companies that pop up to try to capitalize on the niche market, and for those, I'm not sure that it's totally a bad thing. Many people have been "looking for the perfect dumb phone" so we're in a unique position in the coming years for that to kind of happen. I am personally of the belief that you can use the tools available now to make a change, and waiting for promises in tech is a fools game. The idea of a "perfect dumb phone" kind of goes against the point, also. Like, the whole point is against convenience, right? What better way to get familiar with friction in day to day life than with a dumb phone that kind of sucks and cost $40. That might be why I don't like the Lite Phone, it feels too.. premium for something that's gonna suck no matter what. Why spend 4x more?

Catbattle wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:20 am Speaking of, I have a few friends who communicate with me on instagram, so I haven't deleted the app, but I do get drawn into scrolling regularly for at least a few minutes. Feels like peer pressure/social messaging apps are the main draws to my phone now. Any advice for avoiding those social pressures to join on apps/group chats/etc that dumb phones can't do?

This is a fun one - reach out and offer an alternate way to talk, say Signal or just plain old texting/calling, and if they go for it, great, and if not, so be it. I stopped talking to a decent amount of people as a result of this, and yeah, it was kind of depressing at first, I won't lie. But I'll be honest, all I ever got on those apps were stupid videos, and looking back at it now, we never truly talked, so there wasn't much truly lost there. If they care, they'll adapt for you. Trust me, it's a great way to shine a beacon of light on your true friends, and cast darkness onto those who are not.

Catbattle wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 6:20 am (P.S. Thanks for setting up this forum. Very cool!)

Heck yeah, welcome aboard! Like I said, this is all sparked from a future video. I am unsure when that video will be finished, but I wanted to start getting the ball rolling, and I'm thrilled to see people joining and enjoying it

Thanks for such a thoughtful reply! Lots to think about with the switch to a dumb phone. I think it has the potential to be "trendy" as an easy, one purchase fix for dopamine problems, etc. but like you outlined in your video, it also is likely to mean you'll replace phone-related habits with other smart devices, like a tablet or pc, instead of making meaningful and thoughtful changes. There was a period of time where I barely used my phone, but that didn't mean I wasn't using my PC to fill that void of social media dependency.

rejectconvenience wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 11:05 am
I'm all about making what you have work for you, not against you! It sounds like you have a really solid setup here.

Great way to put it. I'm wondering how to do similar things on PC with temptations of youtube, etc. though logging out of social media accounts is usually enough friction for me to remember that I'm intentionally avoiding those sites, so as far as social media is concerned, it's working pretty well. That's how I kicked a twitter habit a few years ago when the site started xitting itself, though I replaced it with a tumblr habit which i kicked in the same way. Though I'm trying to be conscious of replacing the mindless scroll with mindlessly playing a video game or something.

Also, in finding this out, I found out you can't use any account-based google services (gmail, drive, youtube, etc.) on a web browser without having your google account signed into all of them. That stinks, since i want to stay logged out of youtube, so I'll be finding alternatives to those, even if its just using a dedicated email app on my desktop. Unfortunately, drive is a big part of my productivity and most of the work I do is done on drive (Writing, powerpoints, etc.) but I may integrate the drive desktop app into my workflow. I had a stint a while ago of logging into an alternative windows account on my pc which only had the drive desktop app installed, in order to be more productive. Worked pretty well, though I found I would be checking my phone a lot more to see what I had missed in that timespan.

rejectconvenience wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 11:05 am
So it's interesting, on one hand, it's easy to say that if companies see a market, they will take advantage of that market, but at the same time, this movement kind of inherently breaks down the whole reason the smart phone is profitable. It can't show you ads, so from the perspective of, say, Google, what's the point? I don't think existing companies will really encourage the switch at all, because it is way less profitable for them to even attempt it. Like think about the phone plans alone, even though the big 2 offer dumb phone plans, it's $30/month, which, sure, is 10x what I'm paying, but for the smartphone alt, it's upwards of $80, so the profit margins are a lot higher.

Now on the other hand, there will be new companies that pop up to try to capitalize on the niche market, and for those, I'm not sure that it's totally a bad thing. Many people have been "looking for the perfect dumb phone" so we're in a unique position in the coming years for that to kind of happen. I am personally of the belief that you can use the tools available now to make a change, and waiting for promises in tech is a fools game. The idea of a "perfect dumb phone" kind of goes against the point, also. Like, the whole point is against convenience, right? What better way to get familiar with friction in day to day life than with a dumb phone that kind of sucks and cost $40. That might be why I don't like the Lite Phone, it feels too.. premium for something that's gonna suck no matter what. Why spend 4x more?

Well said. Yes, "waiting" or "spending" for the perfect dumb phone definitely goes against the spirit. You're right that giants like Apple, Samsung, Google etc. are unlikely to really push a phone that gives them less profit, unless they start really losing out on customers switching to a dumbphone. I know some people like the extra friction that opening samsungs flip phones provides, though I'm sure that wasn't intentional on samsungs part to get people to use their thousand dollar data trackers less.

I do think alternatives can make the switch more viable though, as some people need smartphones for work messaging apps with no alternatives, but I think that should come in the form of a stripped back android, or the hisense eink phones, which let you use full android with the crappy, gimmicky, high battery life display, which is so gimped that I imagine you really only want to use it as a tool.

Agreed that the "light phone" really sucks, advertising a 300/800 dollar overglorified kids first phone as "It is the most practical way to ditch your smartphone for good." really rubs me the wrong way, considering you could get a crappy budget phone for way less and only have the bare minimum apps on it, or just a plain dumbphone. If it was a 50 dollar gas station purchase I could definitely understand its market, but I guess they need to make money.

rejectconvenience wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 11:05 am This is a fun one - reach out and offer an alternate way to talk, say Signal or just plain old texting/calling, and if they go for it, great, and if not, so be it. I stopped talking to a decent amount of people as a result of this, and yeah, it was kind of depressing at first, I won't lie. But I'll be honest, all I ever got on those apps were stupid videos, and looking back at it now, we never truly talked, so there wasn't much truly lost there. If they care, they'll adapt for you. Trust me, it's a great way to shine a beacon of light on your true friends, and cast darkness onto those who are not.

Fair enough! I definitely agree that for the most part, those chats are just reels anyway. I think for now, I'll put the instagram app on my tablet, which I barely use outside of drawing, just to check in every day or two and see what im not missing. I'm definitely hesitant to make such a hard line in the sand, but I definitely know the real ones would just text me if they really cared.

rejectconvenience wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 11:05 am Heck yeah, welcome aboard! Like I said, this is all sparked from a future video. I am unsure when that video will be finished, but I wanted to start getting the ball rolling, and I'm thrilled to see people joining and enjoying it

Ooo, excited to see what this turns into! I'm sure I'm not alone in missing forums, discord and reddit aren't even close to the same experience.

Catbattle wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:13 pm Great way to put it. I'm wondering how to do similar things on PC with temptations of youtube, etc. though logging out of social media accounts is usually enough friction for me to remember that I'm intentionally avoiding those sites, so as far as social media is concerned, it's working pretty well. That's how I kicked a twitter habit a few years ago when the site started xitting itself, though I replaced it with a tumblr habit which i kicked in the same way. Though I'm trying to be conscious of replacing the mindless scroll with mindlessly playing a video game or something.

I have a really good tip for this! I use Firefox, but most browsers have this kind of function. Change the settings of the browser to clear cookies/cache after every time you close the browser. This means that every time you open it up, you are forced to log in to each service, making it feel far more intentional, or sometimes, discouraging, which isn't bad either.

rejectconvenience wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:47 pm

Catbattle wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:13 pm Great way to put it. I'm wondering how to do similar things on PC with temptations of youtube, etc. though logging out of social media accounts is usually enough friction for me to remember that I'm intentionally avoiding those sites, so as far as social media is concerned, it's working pretty well. That's how I kicked a twitter habit a few years ago when the site started xitting itself, though I replaced it with a tumblr habit which i kicked in the same way. Though I'm trying to be conscious of replacing the mindless scroll with mindlessly playing a video game or something.

I have a really good tip for this! I use Firefox, but most browsers have this kind of function. Change the settings of the browser to clear cookies/cache after every time you close the browser. This means that every time you open it up, you are forced to log in to each service, making it feel far more intentional, or sometimes, discouraging, which isn't bad either.

Thanks for the tip! I also use Firefox, so I'll give that a try. I see you can also manage exceptions, so for some things like steam that are a pain to 2fa into, I'll see if it lets me keep those as exceptions.

Touching on what you said about YouTube addiction... I'd like to share a tip for countering social media addiction on smartphones: using social media browser websites instead of their apps.

For YT, I've found that using the website is significantly less stimulating since many functions are not available/as slick compared to the app, and I've noticed a decrease in my impulses to watch more videos (though this might be illusory correlation on my part).

An interesting side benefit to using the website is that it also seems like *no* ads play when I watch videos, the only ads are the static ones.

I've also done this with Instagram and infinite scroll on Reels isn't as accessible + the homepage jumps right back to the top once you return to it from another page, making it pretty unusuable for long scrolling sessions. Can say that my IG use has also decreased after implementing this change.

Hope this helps someone/provides some thought for discussion!