Forum Software

[CitricScion]

Not gonna lie, maybe 1/3 of the reason I wanted to make an account here is because I want to explore phpBB. For some reason I've really gotten into all the different forum solutions that are out there! I'm partial to Discourse as my all time favorite, but I've recently learned about XenForo (Ars Technica uses this for their forum) and now phpBB through this forum.

It's just cool. I used Reddit for years because I had never seen anything like it. It resonated with my desire to connect online around specific topics of conversation rather than around personal updates. From my perspective forums blew my mind because it was the same idea as Reddit, just totally independent! I know that the history of forums actually goes the other way, but that's how I stumbled upon this, lol.

I'm also really excited about this forum because it's more about life in general and itself not tied to one major idea or another. Most of the other forums I'm a part of are focus on technology, so it's nice to see one that can be for anything. It's about life after you got technology working for you.

[rejectconvenience]

I was originally going to make a big old video that was about why I think forums are the way in regards to online discussions, because I really didn't like discord at the time. I ended up not making it because the point I was trying to make was really kind of proven wrong to me in several ways, and that shifted the conversation to such an extreme that I made the Privacy Visualizer, which ended up taking months of research on its own haha.

I didn't want to make a Discord server for my YouTube community because I knew that I would be guiding some to blindly agree to a privacy policy they won't read, and I didn't love that. I also disagree with what Discord has done as far as "gatekeeping" conversations that have historically been open and searchable, like what is on Reddit or Forums. For example, the iPod Discord server has a lot of really helpful information and asked questions that would have been really helpful for someone just getting into iPods, but you can't use a search engine to see what's inside a Discord server - it's locked behind an account. And sure, the account is free and all that, but that account is inherently tied to data collection, something that I'm obviously passionate about not contributing to.

I didn't understand Discord's Privacy Policy at the time fully, so a trick I had been using was requesting my data from these companies and then comparing that against the Privacy Policy, so I could understand how that sort of worked. I did it for several services, including Google (which has since been deleted), Apple, Discord, and some others. It was really helpful to wrap my head around how to explain some of this stuff.

What I didn't like about Discord is they track everything - they track every time you message someone, or when someone messages you. They track when you login, they track when you look at a server or channel, they track your location, they track all kinds of stuff - they even regularly check in while the app is just running, revealing your location and other items. When I saw that, I was like "no way am I making one of these for my YouTube people".

So I made this Forum as a push against all those things - I want everything to be searchable. If someone wants advice on what dumb phone to get, they can skip all the AI generated slop and see what real people are saying on this forum. I want privacy to not be a concern. Yes, I request your email when you sign up, but I don't ask for any other identifying information, so if you use an email alias, I certainly don't care, I'm not trying to know who you are. I also only ask for your email to prevent bots, because my god, they exist lol.

So I was feeling all high and mighty about all this, when I stumbled across some justification to Discord's data collection - they have a predator problem, and tracking that data can be shared with authorities, which is generally a good thing. I know there is a lot MORE to that conversation in general, but that's why I turned off private messages on this Forum. If someone has something to say, they have to say it to everyone, and anyone can report what the heck is said. I'm hoping that weeds out the predators.

But then that made me remember that there are a LOT of problematic forums with the exact same problem. So I quickly realized that this conversation 100% goes both ways, and I get each sides argument.

Also I've avoided talking about Reddit because they have done some good, sure, but man, I hate that place lol.

Anyways, that's why this is here if anyone cares lol

[trafficone]

I was originally going to make a big old video that was about why I think forums are the way in regards to online discussions, because I really didn't like discord at the time.

<snip />

I want everything to be searchable. If someone wants advice on what dumb phone to get, they can skip all the AI generated slop and see what real people are saying on this forum. I want privacy to not be a concern. Yes, I request your email when you sign up, but I don't ask for any other identifying information, so if you use an email alias, I certainly don't care, I'm not trying to know who you are. I also only ask for your email to prevent bots, because my god, they exist lol.

I think that threaded, asynchronous discussions are very "Internet," and forums/forumlikes are and have always been the place to look for arcane knowledge on the Internet. The building of community in conjunction with the goal of sharing knowledge really leads to some amazing things I think PhpBB has a lot of good about it, but it really feels antiquated in terms of its ways of interactions. It really draws its lineage from the bulletin boards of yesteryear, with some of its baggage. To be clear, I am not suggesting a shift for this forum. It is the right tool for the job. But, in general, the challenges add friction to conversation flow.

• Are hosted by someone, and if they stop paying for the database backend then the community is gone.

• Assume the most important posts in a thread are the first and the last.

• If the most meaningful post is halfway through the thread, it often deserves its own thread.

• Thread lifetime is a concern because inactive conversations fall off the page.

• A relatively small spam bot, DDoS, raid or similar griefing can wreck a server.

What I didn't like about Discord is they track everything - they track every time you message someone, or when someone messages you. They track when you login, they track when you look at a server or channel, they track your location, they track all kinds of stuff - they even regularly check in while the app is just running, revealing your location and other items. When I saw that, I was like "no way am I making one of these for my YouTube people".

Ok, I actually want to get into this in another thread because it's way too off topic, but there's the kernel of anti-freedom at the core of the platform-driven modern online landscape. Discord needs to know those things* to run its service effectively, and even if they don't misuse the data there's no way around it. We're living in Web3.0 and it sucks.

*no they don't

Also I've avoided talking about Reddit because they have done some good, sure, but man, I hate that place lol.

Ok, so Reddit is the ur-forumlike that really brought the Internet together. I don't need to talk about what makes reddit catnip for Internet users, and I already explained why you add "reddit" to the end of any Google search if you want to filter out AI slop. Reddit sucks for lots of reasons (that I'll get to in another thread) but this XKCD highlights how the information is at least constructive most of the time.



This used to be better enforced through social rules of Reddiquette, but those days are well behind us. Now the top comment is the joke, the second comment is the actual answer, and the rest are people trying to be that top comment joke .

[CitricScion]

I still think there is value in talking about forums and the benefits they bring. They can be run independently, separated from unhelpful trends that bog down discussion or understanding, can be set up to respect user privacy out of the box, and (in my opinion) contribute to a healthier relationship with online communities by allowing for asynchronous communication. Most social platforms are really different genres for how we can connect, but the forum is slept on. From a digital minimalism and privacy perspective I think that more people should consider spending their time on forums.

To @trafficone's comment on phpBB, this definitely is software of its time, but considering the vibe of the channel with it's appreciation of old tech and it's place in the world, I don't mind it. It's a vibe. Personally it makes me feel connected to a time on the internet I didn't get to engage with.